Mary Layton ([info]rhiamon) wrote,
@ 2008-07-11 10:31:00
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Entry tags:crackers, over-the-top catholics, pharyngula, pz myers

Support PZ Myers!
Please, any secularists and right-thinking Christians, have a look at PZ Myers' latest blog, and send a message of support as asked:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/fight_back_against_bill_donohu.php

All this stems from PZ's post about a bloke who didn't eat a communion wafer, but popped it into his pocket and walked out with it instead.  He's gotten death threats, has been accused of a hate crime (so, it's acceptable to eat, and later poo out the Eucharist, just don't walk out of church with it?), and as PZ says, 'it's a frackin' cracker'.  I don't know why the bloke didn't consume it - maybe he's on a diet or something, but the church's over-reaction is astounding.  And now, because PZ's pointed out how idiotic that over-reaction is, he is being subject to death threats, and a campaign to have him fired from his post at the University of Minnesota.  The original post can be found here:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/its_a_goddamned_cracker.php


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[info]carmensylph
2008-07-11 03:34 pm UTC (link)
Wow @_@ I am a Christian, and I say that's just plain silly. It's not the stupid bread that is sacred, it's what it represents. Death threats over a piece of bread, no matter what it represents, are definitely not loving your neighbor as yourself nor even loving God; which is what the Jesus I know instructed us to do.
It sounds to me like the ritual and the object have been placed higher than God, and that is sad. :(

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[info]aprilvansickle
2008-07-11 03:37 pm UTC (link)
I am a Christian too and I second everything you said. This is really sad. :(

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[info]rhiamon
2008-07-11 03:44 pm UTC (link)
Absolutely! I am not currently a practising Christian, but I was raised within the Christian faith, and was Episcopalian for many years. We learned that there was a symbolism when you do the ritual of the Eucharist, but that the bread and wine were themselves not sacred - it was the reverence with which you partook of the ritual and it's meaning to you that is sacred - the bread and wine are merely tools to assist your mind in a specific sort of prayerful meditation. What those who are in such an uproar about that piece of bread are doing is essentially idolatry - which is against God's commandments, I do believe.

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[info]carmensylph
2008-07-11 04:02 pm UTC (link)
Yes, it is *absolutely* idolatry. And it is against the highest commandment. :( What these guys are doing is a lot like the Pharisees in Jesus's time, laying heavy loads on people that have nothing to do with God. Which Jesus could see right through, and they sure wanted Him dead for that!!

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[info]thephoenixx
2008-07-11 05:40 pm UTC (link)
If taking it is a hate crime isn't eating it homicide? Cannibalistic homicide?? In the faith of turn the other cheek you wouldn't think things like this would warrant a death threat. Frowned upon yes I can see that but what a gross over inflation. I mean goodness there are a lot of other horrible things to get outraged about. Regardless of religion or beliefs a fanatic of any sort is unhealthy and sometimes dangerous.

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[info]brigidashwood
2008-07-11 05:47 pm UTC (link)
my .02 I have to say I respectfully disagree. Personally I am Pagan and a flaming liberal but I was raised Catholic. To a devout Catholic their feelings about the Eucharist are not idolatry. They feel that a consecrated host has literally gone through a miraculous transformation and is no longer a symbol but now the flesh of Christ incarnate. 8 years of Catholic school...so I have this stuff down. While I wholeheartedly disagree with anyone making death threats against anyone - I have to say I that just because we don't agree with the religious beliefs of another group or we find their idea that it's not just a cracker silly doesn't mean we get to disrespect them. I think that PZ Myers original blog was really condescending, unintelligently written and smacked of secular elitism that the Right Wing Christian Fundies are always complaining about. Again I am a flaming hardcore liberal wine drinking drum circle going Pagan. But religious tolerance goes both ways. I don't know what the original motivation was on the part of the student who took the Eucharist and I think that they are overreacting by wanting him expelled and what not and certainly death threats are way out of line. But the idea that they should just get over it becuase its a stupid cracker is I think really wrong too. It's important to them....it should be respected. Even my seven year old knows you have to be kind and respect other peoples belief and not belittle that which is important to them regardless of how silly you think it is. Just my .02 Thanks for posting something so interesting and compelling Mary! I love a good read.
Big Hugs!

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[info]rhiamon
2008-07-11 07:11 pm UTC (link)
Ahh...I understand a bit better now. As an Episcopalian, I learned that the transformation came from within the participant, not within the wafer/wine itself, but I can certainly understand raised hackles having read your post. PZ's never been known for his tact, I know, but I did find it alarming that the reaction to his post was as vehement as it was (death threats, etc). I can't say I agree with his method, but I do agree with the spirit of his posting that the over-reaction to the guy taking the Eucharist was all out of proportion. I mean, we don't yet know why he did it - perhaps he wanted to take it to an ill friend, or use it to explain the very thing you just explained to me, to others, or maybe he was just an idiot...it just seems as though the knee-jerk reaction won out over a rational 'let's find the lad and see what he's up to nicking the Eucharist, and then deal with him accordingly'. Seems to be a lot of that sort of thing these days. That said - 'It's just a goddamn cracker' was rather out of line, I'll agree.

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